Curse

Burst Cancel · Mar 01, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Low-level arenas are beside the point, and any serious argument stemming from them are red herring at best. PvP is at lvl20, with elite skills and max armor. Any PvP conducted without those characteristics will not prepare you for the real thing. Going to the Ascalon arena at lvl7 wasn't going to teach you anything significant about PvP anyway. Furthermore, arenas at any level teach you very little about the high-end competition of GvG.

The biggest roadblock to GvG is simply the 8-player requirement. It isn't even a matter of just getting 8 people together on a consistent basis - these have to be 8 people that actually care about GvG, and have the intelligence and willingness to improve their play.

Take a look around, fellow GW players. Is the average GW player a person with the intelligence and willingness to improve? And something else to think about: if any amount of trashtalk could turn you off to PvP, I argue that you never wanted to PvP in the first place. Before you start pointing fingers at the game and at other people, take some time and think about what's actually going on.

I won't deny that the PvP environment isn't newbie-friendly. In fact, as I've argued in several other threads in the past, I don't believe that newbie-friendliness is necessary or even beneficial. A competitive environment can't cater to people's feelings if you want to foster truly top-level play. Persistant, merciless competition is what produces our highest-quality players, and it's that high quality that continues to evolve the competitive landscape.

Oh, and finally: stop throwing around the "the good players should help the newbies" bit. If you want to get better, you'll help yourself, rather than sitting around waiting for someone to hold your hand. Observer mode is right there, all of the tricks and builds are available to you 24/7. Pick a top-level match and watch it. Figure it out. I'm tired of people claiming "everyone was a noob once, and someone taught you", and all of the infinite variations. It's bullshit, because many GvG players were never taught by anyone. You scrape together all the information you can from forums, you absorb/steal whatever you can from Observer mode, and you go out and just play until you figure it out.

Nobody has the time to sit there and hold a newbie's hand, and nobody should have to. The top-level players want to compete and hone their own skills, not spend their time teaching newbies. There's nothing wrong with that because there are so many other sources of information. Forums and Observer *spoonfeed* information to you - all you have to do is swallow. But you guys are telling me you're too stupid to even do that.

Omega X · Mar 01, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorglubb

PS: Author has been around since a month after Prophecies launch, he has UAS'ed the PvE way, and has what is those days the luxury of 3 PvP-ready PvE toons, but, alas!, unlike many fellow PvPers, he realizes that most players don't even have the luxury of having UAS *and* read/tried most of the skills (Elite or not) out there (let alone a PvP-ready toon). He also realizes that the introductions to PvP those days are not what they used to be, and he would never /rank anyone, as that's the GW equivalent of showing the middle finger.

I like this last part.

Narcism · Mar 01, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

I really do hope your kidding, most PvP'ers can't and wont play PvE for most of the same reason's PvE'ers wont PvP because they get owned almost everytime because they are not hip to newest most effective build

PvP'ers get owned almost everything in pve because they are not hip to newest most effective build?

that is the funniest *edit*POOP i've ever heard. pve'ing is mindless, there's no challenege, you can beat the game with heroes (which have subpar gear) and subpar gear on yourself... ? how is this a challenge?

Tea Girl · Mar 01, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

I really do hope your kidding, most PvP'ers can't and wont play PvE for most of the same reason's PvE'ers wont PvP because they get owned almost everytime because they are not hip to newest most effective build

Excuse me? Most PVPers play efficent builds in PVE. Just the fact that most of them solo PVE with heroes/henchies so you rarely find them in PVE PUG groups.

Plus PVPers are most likely to be found in elite PVE areas because elite missions are the only challenging/interesting PVE areas in the game.

To me, PVE can be relaxing or boring depending on my mood.

Trixz · Mar 01, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Wow, any self repecting pvper would not start a thread with such completely unvalid points. PVP is made for lvl 20. If you can't see that, quit the game.

elektra_lucia · Mar 01, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I don't play PVE unless I have to (level char up, buy stuff and go PVP) but that's because PVP makes more money for me. In a week of PVP I can get enough money to buy FoW.

In a week of PVE I can't make that same ammount of money, unless I get lucky and/or bore myself to death. I think I'd run out of music^^.

As for the old system. Hmm, I wanted to play warrior, superiour absorption was around 60k back then (maybe more?). It only worked on one bit of armour... Then it changed to global (good game).

I bought a chaos axe which I think was like, 600platinum. 15%50 was a lot then (no idea how much it is now). Then half a day later I realised I needed loads of other axe's. So I spent millions. Then later wanted to try monking anyway.

I made PVP char, messed up one thing and had to go re-roll which was boring...

So in terms of setting up a char. Hmm, it was always expensive if you wanted perfect stuff. I'd say there's more greens about now, at a cheaper price. Which actually makes it easier, not harder. Runes have generally(?) dropped in price.

PVP characters are easier and much better to setup.

So I like that side of the game now...

Winstar · Mar 01, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

I really do hope your kidding, most PvP'ers can't and wont play PvE for most of the same reason's PvE'ers wont PvP because they get owned almost everytime because they are not hip to newest most effective build

This must be quoted again because it is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.

Myrkwid · Mar 01, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

If pvpplayers are found in elitemissions then they aren't pvpplayers, but hybridplayers. And good players are good players, but bad players are bad ones. bad pvpplayers suck in pve just the same like bad pveplayers suck in pvp.
Elitemissions are challenging/interesting? PvP is challenging/interesting? It all boils down to personal preferences. I personally think the elitemissions are boring. And PvP? Challenging? Yes. Interesting? No, infact I find it pretty boring. Can't play it for longer periods. I somehow like it but can't play it more than a few hours before taking a break from it. Pure buildexecution in a slow environment with few maps and even fewer victoryconditions. But that's my opinion and that's not what this thread is about

It's about a shrinking pvppopulation. A trend that is not good for guild wars. This thread is about what changes are possible/needed to attract more players to this playing mode! To make the move from pve (the large community) to pvp (the small community) more succesful and inviting! Basically the players just playing one of the modes were supposed to be the minority, unfortunately they are quite numerous.

Somebody mentioned lowlvl arenas don't help you learn how to play pvp. That's true and that's good. It's the first possible pvpencounter you can have and you don't need much knowledge. They are there to attract people and I know quite some people who started their pvpcareer right there. If gw did not have those arenas they would have been still pure pveplayers.

In my opinion one of the major problems why (for example) HA is in trouble, is that there is a missing link between the casual playmodes and the noncasual ones. 4vs4 casual modes, 6vs6 semicasual (does anybody remember Fort Koga?), 8vs8 HA (pugs possible), 8vs8 gvg (no pugs).

Sid Doog · Mar 01, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winstar

This must be quoted again because it is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.

Thank you i try very hard at saying dumb things

cellardweller · Mar 01, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrkwid

If pvpplayers are found in elitemissions then they aren't pvpplayers, but hybridplayers. And good players are good players, but bad players are bad ones. bad pvpplayers suck in pve just the same like bad pveplayers suck in pvp.
Elitemissions are challenging/interesting? PvP is challenging/interesting? It all boils down to personal preferences. I personally think the elitemissions are boring. And PvP? Challenging? Yes. Interesting? No, infact I find it pretty boring. Can't play it for longer periods. I somehow like it but can't play it more than a few hours before taking a break from it. Pure buildexecution in a slow environment with few maps and even fewer victoryconditions. But that's my opinion and that's not what this thread is about

It's about a shrinking pvppopulation. A trend that is not good for guild wars. This thread is about what changes are possible/needed to attract more players to this playing mode! To make the move from pve (the large community) to pvp (the small community) more succesful and inviting! Basically the players just playing one of the modes were supposed to be the minority, unfortunately they are quite numerous.

Somebody mentioned lowlvl arenas don't help you learn how to play pvp. That's true and that's good. It's the first possible pvpencounter you can have and you don't need much knowledge. They are there to attract people and I know quite some people who started their pvpcareer right there. If gw did not have those arenas they would have been still pure pveplayers.

In my opinion one of the major problems why (for example) HA is in trouble, is that there is a missing link between the casual playmodes and the noncasual ones. 4vs4 casual modes, 6vs6 semicasual (does anybody remember Fort Koga?), 8vs8 HA (pugs possible), 8vs8 gvg (no pugs).

*round of applause*

Edge Martinez · Mar 01, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote: